In the Ohio case involving 16 children, Elizabeth faces new serious felony charges in addition to 16 counts of child endangering, as the grand jury makes its decisions on the case.

In the Ohio case involving 16 children, Elizabeth faces new serious felony charges in addition to 16 counts of child endangering, as the grand jury makes its decisions on the case.

Elizabeth Ciders, the mother of 16 children accused of hiding her children and causing them serious harm,  wants out of jail. But the prosecutor says Elizabeth should stay put. I’ll tell you all of the reasons why. I’m Anget Levy and this is  Crime Fix. Elizabeth Cers has been in jail since June 30th, going on two months now.

 and she wants out. Who wouldn’t? Elizabeth’s attorney has asked the judge to modify her bail, but the prosecutor has now responded in writing and William Archer is essentially saying, “Not so fast, judge. Keep her in.” And his reasons for that are interesting to say the very least.

 I’m going to go through all of this for you. Elizabeth’s husband, Gary Cers, Jr., and her mother-in-law, Christina Ciders, are still in jail, too. Christina Cider’s lawyer has also asked that she be released on bail. Gary Cider senior is out of jail on a signature bond. The 73-year-old grandfather was released from jail because he has a serious medical condition.

 And since he was in jail, the county would have been responsible for his medical bills. And the prosecutor said those medical bills could have caused the county to go bankrupt. That’s how poor Vitten County is. One inmate’s medical bills could have sent the county into a financial tail spin. But right now, the county is responsible for the care of Elizabeth Ciders, the mother of the 16 children, her husband Gary Jr.

, and her mother-in-law Christina Ciders. In the booking video of Elizabeth from June 30th, she was noticeably the only CERS family member who wasn’t handcuffed. Just looking at her, her body language appeared to be much different from her husbands and her in-laws. She cowered, her shoulders were rounded, and she was practically hunched over. She seemed scared.

This, coupled with how Elizabeth appeared in court and in her booking photo, and the fact that she had 18 children over about 18 years made people wonder and question whether Elizabeth was the victim of something nefarious. When asked by a local TV station whether Elizabeth Ciders was a victim, her lawyer Tommy Staly said Elizabeth didn’t consider herself a victim, but he was still looking into that possibility.

Here’s what prosecutor William Archer said when asked whether Elizabeth was a victim at a press conference back on July 8th.  According to her attorney, she’s not a victim. So, we’ll let him decide how he wants to address his representation of her. So, it doesn’t appear at this point that William Archer’s opinion has changed because he has formally objected to any modification of Elizabeth’s bond as it stands right now.

 Archer wrote in a memorandum opposing the request for bail modification, “This court should deny the bond modification for several reasons. First, the defendant is facing multiple serious pending charges, multiple F2s involving serious physical harm to her children, and thus is a flight risk and a potential risk to the victims in this case.

 Second, the defendant has filed a competency motion. Consequently, she is at personal risk until her competency is known. Third, the defendant has new serious felony charges that will be considered by the grand jury. Did you catch that last part? William Archer wrote that Elizabeth Ciders has new serious felony charges that will be considered by the grand jury.

 That sounds like those charges are in addition to the 16 child endangering charges she already faces. Judge Rogers has already ordered a competency evaluation for Elizabeth Ciders at the request of her lawyer. The evaluation will also include an evaluation to determine whether Elizabeth Ciders has a mental illness that would make her not guilty by reason of insanity.

Tommy Staly had said previously that Elizabeth Ciders wants to be released from jail so she can be reunited with her children, but that seems highly unlikely to happen anytime soon. Vitten County is actually seeking permanent custody of the children. Let me tell you, running a business is really tough.

 But why make it harder doing things manually or relying on dozens of apps that don’t talk to each other? That’s where our sponsor, ODO, comes in. ODO is an all-in-one business management platform with a full suite of integrated apps that seamlessly connect all of your operations from sales and accounting to manufacturing and even shipping.

 ODO can automatically generate professional, sleek looking sales orders, invoices, and vendor bills. And it can automatically assign sales teams, send email updates through each sales stage, and even uses AI to pull reports that help with your decision-making. For manufacturing, their apps can sync inventory with real time production and purchase updates, so you never run out of stock.

 And when it comes time for accounting, that’s also fully automated. ODO can create invoices, track expenses, and even summarize data with AI to save you hundreds of hours. The best part, you can choose your apps, and even build custom workflows, so it’s all fully tailored to your business’s needs. Take your business to the next level by consulting with an ODO expert today for free at odo.com/crcimefix.

And there’s also news about Christina Ciders and her request for a bail modification. We’ll get to that in just a moment, but first I want to bring in Ron O’Brien. He is the former prosecutor of Franklin County, Ohio. Uh that’s in Columbus, Ohio, uh to the north of Venton County. Ron, thanks so much for coming back on.

 Oh, very glad to uh see you again.  Yeah, good to see you. I I’m really interested in your thoughts on this prosecutor, William Archer, coming out um after all of these weeks uh weeks and weeks after these requests for bail modifications were filed and saying we oppose any bail modification for these three reasons.

 and and the first reason being, you know, one of the f one of the three reasons he gave for Elizabeth Ciders at least was the fact that her the issue of her competency has been raised. Uh what do you make of that?  Well, I think first in order to do a competency exam, the psychologists like to uh control the location and have it in a controlled setting.

 and if she was released on bond too, there’s no assurance that she would meet uh the examiner at the time and place um identified. So, uh examiners like to interview the suspect and give them any tests, psychological or otherwise, while they’re in the county jail, if they’re going to be released on bond, uh later that’s up to the court.

 But I think they prefer that controlled atmosphere [snorts]  as things stand right now. You know, we know what we know. We know that the 16 children were taken from the house on June 30th. Uh we know that they rem, you know, that three of the adults remain in jail. The children are in therapeutic foster care.

 This prosecutor knows a whole heck of a lot more than we do. He knows the inner workings of the investigation. what brought them there in the first place. He is calling Elizabeth a flight risk. Her attorney, on the other hand, has said that she doesn’t have any money. She can’t post bail, so you should just let her out and put a GPS bracelet on her.

 Um, so is there maybe something this this prosecutor is hearing on jail calls that she’s might be saying to family members that’s really raising his concern that she could potentially flee?  Well, I’m quite sure he’s uh listening to any jail calls by her as well as the others. Uh they’re permitted to do that and have a big sign next to the jail uh telephone that uh the calls are monitored.

 Uh typically they don’t listen listen to phone calls between the uh defendant and their own lawyer, but he’s on there talking to uh family or friends. They are picking that up. Uh interesting uh that uh he also uh identified her as a flight risk. Uh and uh I don’t know what they would know uh that we don’t know.

 They obviously are aware of some uh investigative information, but she doesn’t have any money. She uh doesn’t have, I don’t think, a uh a bunch of outside support. I’m not sure where she would go either. Uh the crime scene itself, uh there’s a whole lot of reasons where she doesn’t have stability should she be released. Uh but on top of that, you know, she’s looking at multiple uh up to 16 um seconddegree felonies that have maximum penalties of eight years.

 So she’s looking at decades in prison and that’s enough motive to flee or at least for the state to argue that she has a reason to flee.  William Archer also said that Elizabeth is a potential risk to the victims in these this case. Now, these potential victims, the 16 children ranging in age from age 18 to one and a half, they’re all in therapeutic foster care.

 So, the, you know, you would hope that, you know, she’s not going to be able to learn their location since she is accused of endangering the children. Uh but this is interesting to me that the the um a prosecutor thinks she’s a potential risk to their safety after her lawyer Tommy Staly has said publicly like she wants to be reunited with her children.

 Uh you know, she loves her children. She’s getting care packages at the jail and she’s asking, “Can I give this stuff to my kids?” Uh so it sounds to me like there’s a lot here under the surface that we don’t know about. What when you read between the lines of this, what does it say to you?  Well, I think just by virtue of the fact that she is suggesting she wants reunited with the children uh that uh should she be released that she might make a effort to have contact with them.

Obviously, the um placements uh for the children would not be known, but given the whole very bizarre circumstances surrounding this case, uh they probably have a concern that she might try and find out where the children are. Obviously, a proposed ankle monitor. We all know ankle monitors fairly regularly get, at least I have had defendants cut them off their ankle and no longer subject to monitoring, which would fit into their argument regarding flight as well as attempt to contact the children.

There’s also um another little tidbit of information in here, very interesting and very important bit of information regarding Elizabeth Siders. Uh the prosecutor says that she’s already facing these 16 charges of child endangering and these are F2s and that includes causing, you know, basically serious harm to a child.

 You know, it’s neglect, not providing a safe environment, causing serious physical harm, things of that nature. But he’s saying when this goes to grand jury, he’s going to ask the grand jurors to indict her on new charges. So that makes me think this is in addition to those 16 child endangering charges. What does that say to you? Because I I don’t know what other charges I my mind is spinning.

 What other charges could Elizabeth Ciders face aside from child endangering? Well, that was the most striking thing in the memo that uh the state filed opposing reduction in bond. And I think it’s showing some cards to the public as well as to uh defense council that look, you’re looking at child endangering cases. Uh but there’s more coming and it’s more serious.

 And uh that is also why she might uh try and flee and that’s also why she might try and reach her children to talk to them uh to influence them one way or another and what their statements may be uh in in uh relating to the endangering children but any other uh offenses that may have occurred while they’re locked in this small room for many years.

 The key to this, I think, is uh among other things, is it’s longgoing. Uh it wasn’t just one discrete uh child endangering where a mother uh burned a a child on the arm and that that’s the basis for the single child endangering. This went on for years where they weren’t sent to school, where they were locked up, that they weren’t allowed out, that their uh life was very much restricted.

 All those things add up to an equation of a longstanding uh neglect and abuse that below the radar should add up to something more than what we know.  I don’t know what other charges she could be facing. You know, I I don’t want to speculate here. Uh but I think that, you know, it goes without saying the prosecutors already publicly said uh you know, these ch children were hidden.

I mean, he said that to the county commissioners in a meeting. They were the hidden children of OMR Street. He likes he that’s you know, he likes that a TV station calls them that. A and the county is seeking permanent custody. There’s not going to be any reunification. If if the county is saying to um the courts, we’re seeking permanent custody of these children, I think that is signaling that this is incredibly serious and reunification is unlikely.

 I think you’re exactly uh correct. this case uh ordinarily this kind of case even though this is a case of its own uh exclusive kind uh a case like this starts with a request for temporary custody to children’s either on an emergency basis uh or otherwise and then you you do an investigation you see what you have and then you look at the family unit and look at uh relatives or others that uh the child might be placed at.

But here they’re starting off right from the get-go, seeking permanent custody, which again, as you say, says uh to everyone concerned that we don’t think reuni reunification with the parents of these children, the way they’ve been treated is ever going to be in the best interest of those children.  And that’s the legal standard in the state of Ohio.

 Um is the best interest of the child. It is in most states, I believe. what is in the best interest of the child. And there must be some evidence that we are not privy to that is goes beyond these are just poor people living in extreme poverty because that’s what a couple of the defense attorneys have said thus far. They’re just poor.

 Uh you know, they they’re living in extreme poverty. You know, Ron, they they’re not in school. They’re not going to school. you know, they’re moving around to avoid children’s services. Does this not signal to you that this goes beyond just being impoverished?  Certainly. Certainly. I think there’s very much uh uh information below the radar that we don’t know yet, but we will find out when the case goes to court that uh would indicate that the state believes that no time in the future should mom or dad or their grandparents have access to these

children that have been so neglected for so many years. If you love digging into the details of crime cases as much as I do, you must download the Law and Crime Plus app. If you haven’t checked it out yet, here are three reasons to jump on board today. Number one, you get complete access. Watch the best shows from both Law and Crime and Court TV completely adree.

Number two, you get the case files, deep dive access to raw trial evidence, including body camera video, 911 calls, crime scene photos, and more. And finally, it is free. Absolutely free for 30 days. We are giving all of our viewers a full month to test it out completely risk-f free. So head on over to law and crimeplus.

com, enter the promo code crimefix, and start exploring today. Now, let’s move on to Christina Ciders. She is grandma, and grandma is in jail under the same bail conditions. and her lawyer has also asked that she receive a bail modification and be released on bail GPS monitor etc. Uh you know as it stands right now all of them have to pay post like $300,000 or at least a portion of that with a shity or something to that effect and then wear a GPS monitor as you stated earlier.

 Um, those can routinely be manipulated, cut off, and honestly, you can cut off a GPS monitor and it might send an alert and somebody might not even see it for a day or two. Correct. Yes, that uh frequently will happen at least here in Franklin County. Uh the systems that they use uh as soon as it is cut off, it sends an alert to the pre-trial release program that then will contact victims uh and uh counsel and say that the GPS has been disrupted.

But I don’t know what kind of system they may have down there. But more than that, the GPS is not monitored in real time. It is kind of like a look back. If uh if gets cut off or if uh she would attempt to contact the um children uh or go somewhere she shouldn’t go if there’s restrictions on her movement.

 Uh they aren’t seeing that until they they look for it. And that’s one of the difficulties that typically occurs. You can put them uh in a certain restrictive zone, but unless they’re going to give her house arrest, so to speak, where they could put it within, you know, a 100 yards of the location where she’s going to be staying, and then it would be programmed to alert uh the probation department or pre-trial release.

 Uh but absent that kind of restriction, then uh yet can’t monitor it in real time. And often somebody with a um ankle monitor will be out commit new crimes and uh it’s good evidence to prosecute them for the new crimes, but you don’t uh have a real-time monitoring to observe or prevent the uh crimes. So, Grandma Christina William Archer says, “We we have not three reasons with a like we do with Elizabeth to oppose a bail modification for her, but we have two reasons.

” And the first is a similar reason. It says she’s facing multiple serious pending charges, the F2s, for child endangering involving serious physical harm uh to the grandchildren and thus is a flight risk. So he he’s saying uh grandma is also a potential flight risk and a potential risk to the victims in this case. And at least it seems to me that uh the same rules apply to all of them except perhaps maybe the grandfather who seems to have sufficient mental health issues that he may not uh share the same kind of either flight risk or threat of harm

to the victims or witnesses. But it um it seems to me that all of them are facing decades uh as a potential prison sentence and they’re also on notice that the state is going to seek permanent custody of the children. So when you ask yourself what reason do they have to stick around? Looking at decades in prison, there’s uh very few reasons that they have to stick around.

He does not say uh in here that grandma is going to face serious new charges as he did with Elizabeth. So is it possible that she only faces those 16 child endangering charges? He he obviously left that out of the opposition to her bail modification. What does that say to you? Well, it says that mom and likely dad are the primary offenders here and grandma and grandpa were in the house and maybe didn’t take control uh maybe didn’t uh uh prevent them from causing the atmosphere that existed, but it sounds to me like they’re more passive

participants than active participants. And then we also have the competency issue uh that William Archer writes about that basically she’s at personal risk until her competency is known because that’s been raised by her counsel,  right? And at least in terms of competency, they they want to be assured that she’s not a risk of harm to herself or to others.

 And uh that is something that would be looked into during the competency exam. And so at this point I can see why they are saying look let’s uh let’s look at this. There’s competency issues. There’s uh flight risk. There’s um a potential harm to the victims. All this together. Let’s just keep her in jail until we see where we are.

 I’m I’m interested to see how soon they may take it to the grand jury because they typically have 60 days from the uh time uh it’s bound over to the grand jury and they’ve already consumed what probably a month maybe. Uh any event, they need to start getting the case together to present to the grand jury and at that point we will see what additional charges uh uh that have been waved around are included in the indictment.

Ron, you read my mind. Um, because that was going to be my next question to you. Uh, when do you see this case going to grand jury? Because it’s been quite a bit of time now. Is this a case where maybe they only want to go once? They don’t want to have to go back to the grand jury uh, you know, on a continuing basis.

 I think that’s exactly right. I think they want to have what they are going to proceed on included in the single indictment against all defendants and include all counts against each individual defendant. And they have a clock at least under the rules of superintendence of 60 days from the time a case is bound over from municipal court to u common please court.

 And in this case uh that is they’re probably close to 40 anyhow. um and or more. And so at this point in time, I would think that uh it should go to the grand jury probably before Labor Day.  Well, we shall see because we’re all watching that calendar and uh we’ll see what happens. Ron O’Brien, thank you so much for your time and your expertise as always.

 Thank you and very good to talk to with you. Elizabeth’s Bale is currently set at $300,000. If she’s able to post it, which her attorney has already said she cannot, she will have to wear a GPS monitor. And remember, you can look at all of the documents, peruse through all of them on our Law and Crime Plus app.